Yawn, and again we are reminded that you cannot reason with people who take the act of blasphemy seriously.
Warning!
The following rantings do not represent the views of the US Government or any Local/National Atheist groups.
Showing posts with label beliefs. Show all posts
Showing posts with label beliefs. Show all posts
Friday, February 24, 2012
Thursday, February 9, 2012
My conversion to Atheism (WALL OF TEXT!!!)
Wow, it has been a while since I posted anything. Just wasn't feeling it....eh, I was lazy. Here is my conversion story...
I’m of the opinion that most people don’t really become who they are until their mid-twenties. By “who we are” I mean that point in time when you have taken in enough information and wisdom so that you can face any situation life throws at you. Be it work, family, politics, hard times, big life decisions. When these situations arise we should be able to know our decisions were based on sound judgment and reasoning and the truest possible understanding of the world around us as. Becoming an Atheist wasn’t just a choice I made near the end of finding myself, but paralleled the road I took. And it doesn’t start with me walking away from, but trying to get closer to God.
I grew up the son of a pastor who preached in in Stewartsville Missouri. He and my mother, who was just as devote as him, were separated after a domestic dispute and I moved to Oklahoma with her when I was like, 8 I think. My dad never returned to church again (for reasons he never told me) but runs a trucker ministry while being a driver for CFI.
While in Oklahoma I grew up in the Bartlesville/Dewey area and went to the First Baptist church in Dewey, attended bible study, and other church functions every week (I believe they still have an old photo of me in their nursery). I prayed often and earnestly. For the next 10 years my faith steadily increased, especially after I joined a non-denominational Church that had a worship band, down to earth preacher, people dancing around and singing in tongues, the whole nine yards. As a teenager I made trips with them to Toronto revivals to get closer to Jesus.
I felt the presence of God. Sometimes I would tingle and sweat with the Holy Spirit. Other times I felt led by Him to give money to a certain cause, or to pay someone a specific compliment. These things still happen but I attribute them to myself just being a good empathetic person.
Around age 18 when I went away to college I got depressed from guilt, probably because I downloaded music, and watched a lot of internet porn. During this time I also met many different people from many different religions. Growing up in the Dewey area I was never confronted with someone who wasn’t a Christian (except for the Wiccan girl in middle school, who I still feel about making fun of to this day). Before my encounters with them I was of the opinion that if you were not a Christian then you were either evil, stupid, or just not right in the head. I mean, it was so obvious to me, all the evidence was there, and to believe in something else was crazy. First it was my roommate, Charlie; he was the first Atheist I ever met. Until this point I didn’t know it was even possible to “not” believe in God. I was taught that Atheists were just people who are angry at God. Charlie turned out to be relatively normal, just like me in fact and we had a great year being roommates. Then there were the two gentlemen I met in zoology, both Muslim but great study partners. It took nearly the entire semester before I got the gulls to ask why they believe in Allah. As I listened I instantly became aware that they believed for exactly the same reasons as me. Not only that, but they were taught about Jesus and the Christian bible while they were children to help strengthen their faith. I felt kind of cheated by my parents and my religion, why was I so hidden from other religions? I mean the truth of God has nothing to hide from, right? If it helps Muslims to learn about other faiths then it should work for me too and make me a better Christian. So I made it a point to sign up for a world religion course.
That holiday season my faith was truly shaken for the first time in my life. I was watching the history channel and they had a special on about the Jamestown massacre. At first I felt cheated again by my religion for being so sheltered. I mean this was an important part of Christian history, and could teach a valuable lesson about the terrible things that can happen if you can’t think for yourself. When they got to the interviews (of family of followers and followers themselves) I felt myself moving outside of my Christian box. I quickly realized that the people who killed their children and themselves were not crazy and not tricked by the devil. They seemed a lot like my mother, my aunt and other devoted people just like me. They clearly loved God just as much as I did. They prayed, probably more than I ever had. All these people wanted was what all religious people want. To live like God wants them too, right? Why would God let this happen? Why was there no intervention to stop them from feeding their children poison? He had plenty of opportunities seeing as how they spent most of their days praising him.
I tried to tell myself “his ways are above us”, but why? If we are involved wouldn’t that make much more sense for us to understand and thereby stopping atrocities like this that have no Good come from them at all, atrocities so bad, that I thought I had just figured out why this was never taught to me. These thoughts of questioning God were scaring me and made myself stop them and decided that I needed extra help. While continuing to attend church and pray on the matter I purchased an apologetics book my friend prescribed called the Divine Conspiracy to help strengthen my faith. I only made it half way through the book when I decided that it wasn’t giving the answers I needed, while beautifully written, I just didn’t feel satisfied. So if it wasn’t my faith I was trying to fix then what was it? Maybe faith wasn’t good enough for me? This thought also scared me; I realize now it was only because I didn’t understand what I really meant by “faith” at that time.
When my world religions class started I had been praying about my situation and hoping God would give me something that would pull me the direction I needed to go. It was in this class I found my new passion. I loved learning about why people believe what they believe. I soon found myself immersed in the writings of the Mahabharata, Siddhartha Gautama, Joseph Smith and the Koran. When we made it to Christianity I was reminded of my faith problems. Not at anything we learned. It was all basic with just a few things I didn’t know. But wanting to learn more of my own faith I decided to make my way to the religion section in Barns and Nobel. Immediately my eyes found a book called A History of God: The 4,000-year Quest of Judiasm, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong. Without even reading it I knew this was what I was looking for, it would help me understand why my religion is the way it is and hopefully restore some faith. I thanked God for making my search so effortless and went on my way.
The book was amazing. It was a complete dissection of all three religions and where they came from. Starting with pagan/multi God roots and working its way up to monotheism. Yes, when Judaism came to power they were trying to join together all the Gods into one. The original Old Testament Hebrew texts or, the Torah, document this well. In the early parts of the Old Testament the word God is spelled “אלים” the “ים” at the end makes it plural. The more I studied the more I realized that everything I was taught in Sunday school was wrong, Genesis was now completely bunk to me. Humans didn’t always worship Yahweh, there was thousands upon thousands of years where we worshiped whatever the heck we wanted to trees, the sun, or other people and the Christian really didn’t come along until much longer after. So if Genesis was true then all of our ancestors for thousands of years went straight to hell because God didn’t make an appearance until 6 thousands years ago. This led me to a logical conclusion, Genesis, Eve, the apple and the magic snake all had to be true in order for the fall of man to happen. If the fall of man doesn’t happen then Jesus doesn’t need to be crucified. If all of these things are unnecessary then why bother believing in them. At this point I was well out of my Christian box and these thoughts no longer scared me anymore. I was only driven for more knowledge. My pursuit for which religion was most true started with Buddhism. Although a beautiful philosophy and a agreat way to make yourself a better person when I came to the spiritual aspects I just couldn’t believe them with a straight face. This made me realize that it wasn’t any of the spiritual parts of any religion that made me want to be a better person but he philosophies, so I turned to philosophy. After years of study, and watching debates I became an Agnostic. After a little while as an Agnostic I found a program called the Atheist Experience run by Matt Dillahunty. It was this man and his amazing skeptical and philosophical skills that gave the bravery to take that final step. Along with from Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens I came to realize that there is nothing wrong with being an Atheist.
It certainly wasn’t one single fact, but hundreds and hundreds from studies of all religions. Basically, Christianity looks very much like just another religion invented by ancient, superstitious people. Its claims about the universe are numerously false – until they are reluctantly rewritten to keep up with science, which has only made God smaller, less active, and more hidden.
And I can no more chose to be an Atheist then you choose to be a Christian, or choose to love your wife. These are things that happen through our life experiences and feelings from reason and how we interpret the world around us. Even I woke up on day and decided that I would pick a religion because I am scared of going to hell it wouldn’t be an honest route to take; I wouldn’t be worshiping a God because I believe in him, only out of fear of death. For me to become a true Christian again it would have to be something that would turn me away from all the evidence I have seen and the experiences I’ve had over the past 10 or so years. God should know how to do that, and it isn’t impossible because it worked going one way, why not the other?
I’m of the opinion that most people don’t really become who they are until their mid-twenties. By “who we are” I mean that point in time when you have taken in enough information and wisdom so that you can face any situation life throws at you. Be it work, family, politics, hard times, big life decisions. When these situations arise we should be able to know our decisions were based on sound judgment and reasoning and the truest possible understanding of the world around us as. Becoming an Atheist wasn’t just a choice I made near the end of finding myself, but paralleled the road I took. And it doesn’t start with me walking away from, but trying to get closer to God.
I grew up the son of a pastor who preached in in Stewartsville Missouri. He and my mother, who was just as devote as him, were separated after a domestic dispute and I moved to Oklahoma with her when I was like, 8 I think. My dad never returned to church again (for reasons he never told me) but runs a trucker ministry while being a driver for CFI.
While in Oklahoma I grew up in the Bartlesville/Dewey area and went to the First Baptist church in Dewey, attended bible study, and other church functions every week (I believe they still have an old photo of me in their nursery). I prayed often and earnestly. For the next 10 years my faith steadily increased, especially after I joined a non-denominational Church that had a worship band, down to earth preacher, people dancing around and singing in tongues, the whole nine yards. As a teenager I made trips with them to Toronto revivals to get closer to Jesus.
I felt the presence of God. Sometimes I would tingle and sweat with the Holy Spirit. Other times I felt led by Him to give money to a certain cause, or to pay someone a specific compliment. These things still happen but I attribute them to myself just being a good empathetic person.
Around age 18 when I went away to college I got depressed from guilt, probably because I downloaded music, and watched a lot of internet porn. During this time I also met many different people from many different religions. Growing up in the Dewey area I was never confronted with someone who wasn’t a Christian (except for the Wiccan girl in middle school, who I still feel about making fun of to this day). Before my encounters with them I was of the opinion that if you were not a Christian then you were either evil, stupid, or just not right in the head. I mean, it was so obvious to me, all the evidence was there, and to believe in something else was crazy. First it was my roommate, Charlie; he was the first Atheist I ever met. Until this point I didn’t know it was even possible to “not” believe in God. I was taught that Atheists were just people who are angry at God. Charlie turned out to be relatively normal, just like me in fact and we had a great year being roommates. Then there were the two gentlemen I met in zoology, both Muslim but great study partners. It took nearly the entire semester before I got the gulls to ask why they believe in Allah. As I listened I instantly became aware that they believed for exactly the same reasons as me. Not only that, but they were taught about Jesus and the Christian bible while they were children to help strengthen their faith. I felt kind of cheated by my parents and my religion, why was I so hidden from other religions? I mean the truth of God has nothing to hide from, right? If it helps Muslims to learn about other faiths then it should work for me too and make me a better Christian. So I made it a point to sign up for a world religion course.
That holiday season my faith was truly shaken for the first time in my life. I was watching the history channel and they had a special on about the Jamestown massacre. At first I felt cheated again by my religion for being so sheltered. I mean this was an important part of Christian history, and could teach a valuable lesson about the terrible things that can happen if you can’t think for yourself. When they got to the interviews (of family of followers and followers themselves) I felt myself moving outside of my Christian box. I quickly realized that the people who killed their children and themselves were not crazy and not tricked by the devil. They seemed a lot like my mother, my aunt and other devoted people just like me. They clearly loved God just as much as I did. They prayed, probably more than I ever had. All these people wanted was what all religious people want. To live like God wants them too, right? Why would God let this happen? Why was there no intervention to stop them from feeding their children poison? He had plenty of opportunities seeing as how they spent most of their days praising him.
I tried to tell myself “his ways are above us”, but why? If we are involved wouldn’t that make much more sense for us to understand and thereby stopping atrocities like this that have no Good come from them at all, atrocities so bad, that I thought I had just figured out why this was never taught to me. These thoughts of questioning God were scaring me and made myself stop them and decided that I needed extra help. While continuing to attend church and pray on the matter I purchased an apologetics book my friend prescribed called the Divine Conspiracy to help strengthen my faith. I only made it half way through the book when I decided that it wasn’t giving the answers I needed, while beautifully written, I just didn’t feel satisfied. So if it wasn’t my faith I was trying to fix then what was it? Maybe faith wasn’t good enough for me? This thought also scared me; I realize now it was only because I didn’t understand what I really meant by “faith” at that time.
When my world religions class started I had been praying about my situation and hoping God would give me something that would pull me the direction I needed to go. It was in this class I found my new passion. I loved learning about why people believe what they believe. I soon found myself immersed in the writings of the Mahabharata, Siddhartha Gautama, Joseph Smith and the Koran. When we made it to Christianity I was reminded of my faith problems. Not at anything we learned. It was all basic with just a few things I didn’t know. But wanting to learn more of my own faith I decided to make my way to the religion section in Barns and Nobel. Immediately my eyes found a book called A History of God: The 4,000-year Quest of Judiasm, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong. Without even reading it I knew this was what I was looking for, it would help me understand why my religion is the way it is and hopefully restore some faith. I thanked God for making my search so effortless and went on my way.
The book was amazing. It was a complete dissection of all three religions and where they came from. Starting with pagan/multi God roots and working its way up to monotheism. Yes, when Judaism came to power they were trying to join together all the Gods into one. The original Old Testament Hebrew texts or, the Torah, document this well. In the early parts of the Old Testament the word God is spelled “אלים” the “ים” at the end makes it plural. The more I studied the more I realized that everything I was taught in Sunday school was wrong, Genesis was now completely bunk to me. Humans didn’t always worship Yahweh, there was thousands upon thousands of years where we worshiped whatever the heck we wanted to trees, the sun, or other people and the Christian really didn’t come along until much longer after. So if Genesis was true then all of our ancestors for thousands of years went straight to hell because God didn’t make an appearance until 6 thousands years ago. This led me to a logical conclusion, Genesis, Eve, the apple and the magic snake all had to be true in order for the fall of man to happen. If the fall of man doesn’t happen then Jesus doesn’t need to be crucified. If all of these things are unnecessary then why bother believing in them. At this point I was well out of my Christian box and these thoughts no longer scared me anymore. I was only driven for more knowledge. My pursuit for which religion was most true started with Buddhism. Although a beautiful philosophy and a agreat way to make yourself a better person when I came to the spiritual aspects I just couldn’t believe them with a straight face. This made me realize that it wasn’t any of the spiritual parts of any religion that made me want to be a better person but he philosophies, so I turned to philosophy. After years of study, and watching debates I became an Agnostic. After a little while as an Agnostic I found a program called the Atheist Experience run by Matt Dillahunty. It was this man and his amazing skeptical and philosophical skills that gave the bravery to take that final step. Along with from Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens I came to realize that there is nothing wrong with being an Atheist.
It certainly wasn’t one single fact, but hundreds and hundreds from studies of all religions. Basically, Christianity looks very much like just another religion invented by ancient, superstitious people. Its claims about the universe are numerously false – until they are reluctantly rewritten to keep up with science, which has only made God smaller, less active, and more hidden.
And I can no more chose to be an Atheist then you choose to be a Christian, or choose to love your wife. These are things that happen through our life experiences and feelings from reason and how we interpret the world around us. Even I woke up on day and decided that I would pick a religion because I am scared of going to hell it wouldn’t be an honest route to take; I wouldn’t be worshiping a God because I believe in him, only out of fear of death. For me to become a true Christian again it would have to be something that would turn me away from all the evidence I have seen and the experiences I’ve had over the past 10 or so years. God should know how to do that, and it isn’t impossible because it worked going one way, why not the other?
Tuesday, July 19, 2011
Mocking and Ridicule of Fundies
I'm a frequent contributor to news-site comment pages. Namely, news-sites who post stories on subjects I care about. Here is a recent one I've flogged in several places: FCKH8
When I first started patrolling comment boxes looking for the latest bigot or intellectually dishonest person to correct, I would try my best to remain civil, to state my case in a solid manner hoping they would see the "light" or, in the least, to show a different side and give rise to an honest discussion.
This never really works... ever.
A holocaust denier bringing up his views in a job interview would be a really bad idea. This is because, not only will they not be taken seriously, but they will open themselves to harsh ridicule. Statements based on blind religious fundamentalism should be held to the same critical standard. When people say stupid shit because of their religion, I now feel the need to point out that their unfounded claims are going to encounter serious scrutiny. And, if I can find a spot, I'm going to let the jabs fly.
From my most recent exchange:
Dave - "It isn't surprising that gays are intolerant & hateful."
Me - "It isn't surprising that Christians are intolerant & hateful."
See what I did there? Your just spouting silly retoric without justification.
Where did you get your incredibly bad reasoning skills? ... They were making FUN of christian bigotry and closemindednes... The only intolerant & hateful people in this argument are those who spread lies and hate in order to press their own beliefs on others."
Dave -"By your actions, you're supporting what I've said.
Me - "Umm, nothing [I] said proved your above statement. You said "hateful & intolerant" and your point is still dumb and unfounded. What you can assert however, is that we are resorting to mockery and ridicule which, anti gay groups deserve when they spout their bigotry. Half the fun is making points the other half is mocking you small minded fundies while having a good laugh at your expense. Just like we do against racists or sexists, yes we compare you to them."
Now, I don't know if this guy was a Christian or not. But I didn't care. He had said "homos" are hateful for w/e the fuck reason and I felt like laying into him. I personally didn't care if I changed his mind. Asking someone such as this to change their minds is like asking my dog to do the dishes... They will approach it with the exact same level of comprehension. Mostly I am aiming to change the minds of others reading our exchange. Hopefully, some other fundie read it and it altered their point of view or made them think. Hopefully? Maybe that one person was going to post something similar, but now sees that it will only lead to people like me mocking their stupid beliefs. I can only hope it did.
When I first started patrolling comment boxes looking for the latest bigot or intellectually dishonest person to correct, I would try my best to remain civil, to state my case in a solid manner hoping they would see the "light" or, in the least, to show a different side and give rise to an honest discussion.
This never really works... ever.
A holocaust denier bringing up his views in a job interview would be a really bad idea. This is because, not only will they not be taken seriously, but they will open themselves to harsh ridicule. Statements based on blind religious fundamentalism should be held to the same critical standard. When people say stupid shit because of their religion, I now feel the need to point out that their unfounded claims are going to encounter serious scrutiny. And, if I can find a spot, I'm going to let the jabs fly.
From my most recent exchange:
Dave - "It isn't surprising that gays are intolerant & hateful."
Me - "It isn't surprising that Christians are intolerant & hateful."
See what I did there? Your just spouting silly retoric without justification.
Where did you get your incredibly bad reasoning skills? ... They were making FUN of christian bigotry and closemindednes... The only intolerant & hateful people in this argument are those who spread lies and hate in order to press their own beliefs on others."
Dave -"By your actions, you're supporting what I've said.
Me - "Umm, nothing [I] said proved your above statement. You said "hateful & intolerant" and your point is still dumb and unfounded. What you can assert however, is that we are resorting to mockery and ridicule which, anti gay groups deserve when they spout their bigotry. Half the fun is making points the other half is mocking you small minded fundies while having a good laugh at your expense. Just like we do against racists or sexists, yes we compare you to them."
Now, I don't know if this guy was a Christian or not. But I didn't care. He had said "homos" are hateful for w/e the fuck reason and I felt like laying into him. I personally didn't care if I changed his mind. Asking someone such as this to change their minds is like asking my dog to do the dishes... They will approach it with the exact same level of comprehension. Mostly I am aiming to change the minds of others reading our exchange. Hopefully, some other fundie read it and it altered their point of view or made them think. Hopefully? Maybe that one person was going to post something similar, but now sees that it will only lead to people like me mocking their stupid beliefs. I can only hope it did.
Wednesday, July 6, 2011
Atheists Secretly Want to Love and Worship God
Father Robert Baron tried to rationalize why so many militant atheists are making so much noise on the internet these days. He of course doesn't come any where close because he claims "My wager, as a person of faith, is that everyone — and that includes Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins — implicitly wants God and hence remains permanently fascinated by the things of God."
Here is the whole post below:
http://thecatholicspirit.com/featured/why-are-so-many-atheists-on-the-cnn-belief-blog/
Well now, I'm a militant atheist and consider myself pretty well educated so I tried to let him know where he is wrong. This is what I typed in the comments and I hope he reads it:
Hey, an atheist here and I feel the need to shine the light on some things you said:
" Are the advocates of the faith ready to meet that challenge?"
In my opinion, no. And they won't be until Churches can increase the level of legitimate education among their members and decrease the level of wilful ignorance. One of the most annoying things about Christians to me is their lack in understanding of not only the history of their own religion, but the wall that is built up by their parents and their Church to hide them from the rest of the world's philosophies. This leads to people bumbling around when are they confronted with strange philosophical analogies and questions or have an atheist throw Bible verses back at them. Oh yes, we read it. Any good atheist has read the entire thing and the Koran. The modern world is too small to keep all of our religious views from affecting one another and therefore, it behoves us to communicate with each other honestly and effectively.
"We shouldn’t imitate the Internet atheists in their nastiness,"
Sometimes we become annoyed at having to answer the same questions over and over again and we resort to short snappy answers. Don't let this scare you off. However, If you truly encounter a tone you don't like or they seem to be shot-gunning around your questions, then don't talk to that person. It's that simple.
"Everyone is searching"
No. This is not true.
"My wager, as a person of faith, is that everyone — and that includes Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins — implicitly wants God and hence remains permanently fascinated by the things of God."
This is untrue on many levels. You are asserting to know what is on other men's hearts and minds, that's just silly to start off with. And, you shouldn't find any intellectually honest atheists doing any mind-reading either. This leads to a ignorant statement that they are lying when they assert that they are not searching for God. You've already lost the wager if you claim something like that. What If I were a Muslim and told you that, as a Christian, "Your lying about actually believing in Jesus. All of the strife in your life is because Allah is calling to you, but you refuse to see him."? I would expect you to get angry. Not only is the assertaion a direct assult to your deeply held beliefs...but it's completely unfounded. These types of accusations are not only dishonest, but also fail to open any sort of productive dialogue.
"Though the fierce atheists of today profess that they would like to eliminate religious speech and religious ideas, secretly they love to listen as people speak of God. This goes a long way, it seems to me, toward explaining their presence in great numbers on religious blogs"
No, it's not an elimination of speech and ideas we want. It is a broadening and universality of all philosophies and ideals, religious or not, with all subject to he same scrutinity to ensure they adhere to the tenants of equal human rights. Also, again, No I don't secretly long for your Yahweh. I have a passion for religious philosophy and finding out what people believe and why they believe it.
[John] "I think your spot on. They really want to believe in Him, and they can't stay away."
Again, I hoped I covered this well enough above. If not I can go over it again. And feel free to ask me any other questions.
Here is the whole post below:
http://thecatholicspirit.com/featured/why-are-so-many-atheists-on-the-cnn-belief-blog/
Well now, I'm a militant atheist and consider myself pretty well educated so I tried to let him know where he is wrong. This is what I typed in the comments and I hope he reads it:
Hey, an atheist here and I feel the need to shine the light on some things you said:
" Are the advocates of the faith ready to meet that challenge?"
In my opinion, no. And they won't be until Churches can increase the level of legitimate education among their members and decrease the level of wilful ignorance. One of the most annoying things about Christians to me is their lack in understanding of not only the history of their own religion, but the wall that is built up by their parents and their Church to hide them from the rest of the world's philosophies. This leads to people bumbling around when are they confronted with strange philosophical analogies and questions or have an atheist throw Bible verses back at them. Oh yes, we read it. Any good atheist has read the entire thing and the Koran. The modern world is too small to keep all of our religious views from affecting one another and therefore, it behoves us to communicate with each other honestly and effectively.
"We shouldn’t imitate the Internet atheists in their nastiness,"
Sometimes we become annoyed at having to answer the same questions over and over again and we resort to short snappy answers. Don't let this scare you off. However, If you truly encounter a tone you don't like or they seem to be shot-gunning around your questions, then don't talk to that person. It's that simple.
"Everyone is searching"
No. This is not true.
"My wager, as a person of faith, is that everyone — and that includes Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins — implicitly wants God and hence remains permanently fascinated by the things of God."
This is untrue on many levels. You are asserting to know what is on other men's hearts and minds, that's just silly to start off with. And, you shouldn't find any intellectually honest atheists doing any mind-reading either. This leads to a ignorant statement that they are lying when they assert that they are not searching for God. You've already lost the wager if you claim something like that. What If I were a Muslim and told you that, as a Christian, "Your lying about actually believing in Jesus. All of the strife in your life is because Allah is calling to you, but you refuse to see him."? I would expect you to get angry. Not only is the assertaion a direct assult to your deeply held beliefs...but it's completely unfounded. These types of accusations are not only dishonest, but also fail to open any sort of productive dialogue.
"Though the fierce atheists of today profess that they would like to eliminate religious speech and religious ideas, secretly they love to listen as people speak of God. This goes a long way, it seems to me, toward explaining their presence in great numbers on religious blogs"
No, it's not an elimination of speech and ideas we want. It is a broadening and universality of all philosophies and ideals, religious or not, with all subject to he same scrutinity to ensure they adhere to the tenants of equal human rights. Also, again, No I don't secretly long for your Yahweh. I have a passion for religious philosophy and finding out what people believe and why they believe it.
[John] "I think your spot on. They really want to believe in Him, and they can't stay away."
Again, I hoped I covered this well enough above. If not I can go over it again. And feel free to ask me any other questions.
Monday, June 27, 2011
Who Died and Made the Church King?
Recently NY Legalized Gay Unions.
Also recently, to no one's surprise, the Catholic Church had a thing or two to say about it.
"This is a further erosion of the real understanding of marriage,"
No, it is not an erosion. If anything, it's an addition. But neither of these verbs is appropriate in describing changes to marital bonds; and your understanding of marriage, between a man and woman, is based on misinformation, lies, or the Bible (Actually, the bible is Both of those things, but I digress).
"The state should not be concerned about regulating affection."
DiMarzio is a fucking idiot. (You can tell they don't go to "real" college.)
First off, he uses the word affection in what seems to be an attempt to pry some sort of extra emotion from people, but the phrase "regulating affection" makes no sense. You can't control how much people care for each other on any level and it's silly to say that everyone who is in a Civil Union is affectionate to what-ever-the-fuck degree.
Secondly, the State WAS concerned about regulating things by telling people with whom they can and can not legally be together. Now they have simply taken a neutral stance. I don't like asparagus. I think it is gross and an abomination, however just because the government doesn't stop people from growing it because of my deeply held beliefs about it doesn't mean there is some vegetable regulation racket. This assumption of his is so incredibly silly I can't believe that anyone would take it seriously.
Thirdly, who died and made the Church king of all things needing to be regulated? I would also say that a celibate priest is not an expert in relationships. Maybe the real reason priests are so angry is because we won't redefine "affection regulation" so that grown men can marry 12 year old boys.
Also recently, to no one's surprise, the Catholic Church had a thing or two to say about it.
"This is a further erosion of the real understanding of marriage,"
No, it is not an erosion. If anything, it's an addition. But neither of these verbs is appropriate in describing changes to marital bonds; and your understanding of marriage, between a man and woman, is based on misinformation, lies, or the Bible (Actually, the bible is Both of those things, but I digress).
"The state should not be concerned about regulating affection."
DiMarzio is a fucking idiot. (You can tell they don't go to "real" college.)
First off, he uses the word affection in what seems to be an attempt to pry some sort of extra emotion from people, but the phrase "regulating affection" makes no sense. You can't control how much people care for each other on any level and it's silly to say that everyone who is in a Civil Union is affectionate to what-ever-the-fuck degree.
Secondly, the State WAS concerned about regulating things by telling people with whom they can and can not legally be together. Now they have simply taken a neutral stance. I don't like asparagus. I think it is gross and an abomination, however just because the government doesn't stop people from growing it because of my deeply held beliefs about it doesn't mean there is some vegetable regulation racket. This assumption of his is so incredibly silly I can't believe that anyone would take it seriously.
Thirdly, who died and made the Church king of all things needing to be regulated? I would also say that a celibate priest is not an expert in relationships. Maybe the real reason priests are so angry is because we won't redefine "affection regulation" so that grown men can marry 12 year old boys.
Friday, June 17, 2011
Tell Me Your Interpretation of Your Holy Book...of crap
It's not your interpretation of the bible, it's the fact that it is interpretable in so many ways that causes so many problems. Problems like the ones that lead to phrases such as "Well, they aren't real Christians".
Sometimes people don't think critically. At one time I believed that I was a true Christian. How did I know? What is a true Christian? Well at the time it was all a product of my interactions with other members of my congregation. As a youth group member one tries to live up too all the expectations of the elders, of the other youths, and of their parents. It was praise and acceptance that I was looking for. It's the praise and acceptance that everyone is looking for... granted we did have a couple of those "fuck authority" kids, always making their decisions based on how much they could piss off the powers that be (those people annoy the hell out of me too).
My congregation was made up of like-minded people who had specific ideas of what it's like to be a true Christian. Being a congregation meant that we had, for the most part, a similar frame of mind when it came to our beliefs. If someone strayed too far from these beliefs, various forms of spiritual what-not would take place (for example, a sit-down/talk with elders). If/When someone would concede irreconcilable differences they would just find a new denomination with Christians that would welcome their particular take on how "Real Christians" should operate. After finding a new place to call home they would completely disregard the illogical situation that just happened... They were part of a situation that, because of the interpretable "Word of God", they were forced to leave a group of people they once called brothers and sisters. When a preacher is giving a sermon it's called infallible, but when hard questions are asked...it becomes interpretive.
In 2000 the World Christian Database showed about 33,000 denominations of x-mas sects. Now, they only mention 9,000... however, it would still be a "WTF?!" number even if it was 2. By backing this current religious situation Christians are advocating not only the belief in an ancient book, but also that their God is incapable of writing one that is straight forward enough to unite all people. In the Christian religion one is talking about eternal punishment in hell for things that sincere God-loving/fearing people can't agree on. If these beliefs are true... Then Yaweh is a prick, unworthy of worship. I really wish Christians would spot these major flaws of interpretation and stop failing so much at life.
"This is one of the pinnacles of Christian apologetics...and they are unable to spot their flaws in their own [arguments]. Now they are bending over backwards and sacrificing every bit of decency they have in order to make excuses for this fictional monster they feel they must defend." - Matt Dillahunty (around the 30 min mark)
Sometimes people don't think critically. At one time I believed that I was a true Christian. How did I know? What is a true Christian? Well at the time it was all a product of my interactions with other members of my congregation. As a youth group member one tries to live up too all the expectations of the elders, of the other youths, and of their parents. It was praise and acceptance that I was looking for. It's the praise and acceptance that everyone is looking for... granted we did have a couple of those "fuck authority" kids, always making their decisions based on how much they could piss off the powers that be (those people annoy the hell out of me too).
My congregation was made up of like-minded people who had specific ideas of what it's like to be a true Christian. Being a congregation meant that we had, for the most part, a similar frame of mind when it came to our beliefs. If someone strayed too far from these beliefs, various forms of spiritual what-not would take place (for example, a sit-down/talk with elders). If/When someone would concede irreconcilable differences they would just find a new denomination with Christians that would welcome their particular take on how "Real Christians" should operate. After finding a new place to call home they would completely disregard the illogical situation that just happened... They were part of a situation that, because of the interpretable "Word of God", they were forced to leave a group of people they once called brothers and sisters. When a preacher is giving a sermon it's called infallible, but when hard questions are asked...it becomes interpretive.
In 2000 the World Christian Database showed about 33,000 denominations of x-mas sects. Now, they only mention 9,000... however, it would still be a "WTF?!" number even if it was 2. By backing this current religious situation Christians are advocating not only the belief in an ancient book, but also that their God is incapable of writing one that is straight forward enough to unite all people. In the Christian religion one is talking about eternal punishment in hell for things that sincere God-loving/fearing people can't agree on. If these beliefs are true... Then Yaweh is a prick, unworthy of worship. I really wish Christians would spot these major flaws of interpretation and stop failing so much at life.
"This is one of the pinnacles of Christian apologetics...and they are unable to spot their flaws in their own [arguments]. Now they are bending over backwards and sacrificing every bit of decency they have in order to make excuses for this fictional monster they feel they must defend." - Matt Dillahunty (around the 30 min mark)
Sunday, June 12, 2011
I have Found the Mecca of Religious Debates
So, with all the blogs and research sites I visit there are times when my eyes come across the name of an apologist, or a scientist, or an atheist, or a citation for a debate that I want to know more about. LukeProg over at Common Sense Atheism created a one stop page on his blog for those times when you want to look up debates for any person you have become interested in researching more. I have used it a couple of times and would like to give it the proper recognition it deserves on my site!
500+ Religious Debates:
http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=50#latest
500+ Religious Debates:
http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=50#latest
Tuesday, June 7, 2011
PZ Meyers and Aron Ra Take on Some Islam Creationists
Fast-forward to 10:50 and listen to Aron Ra back them into admitting that "you can't be punished for being a non-believer unless you are told about Allah"...the whole audience pipes in.
Tuesday, May 31, 2011
Offending Religious Sentiment
Here in America you can be charged with a crime if you impersonate a government official. And It matters weather or not you were just making fun of the type of official, (that would be a freedom of speech violation) unless you tried to get special treatment to attempt illegal shit while doing so. Which makes sense, and its purpose has nothing to do with possibly offending any officials. But for some reason in Maltese Nine people might be charge with a crime. The same type of charge we have here...but it extends to church and religious officials. Why? Seriously, why?
the behavior was “not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or the saints” but more a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment.
Offending your religious sentiment? What about your religion offending and completely disregarding gay sentiment? What about verses in your bible calling for the death of homosexuals? What about unequal rights for women all over the world? What about its advocation of slavery, stoning, genocide and technological deceleration? No, you don't deserve a "don't pick on me" card. As long as you get your morals from a book that leads to and advocates beliefs that keep society from evolving and making itself better you will be mocked...and I will laugh.
P.S. Tim Minchin doesn't like the Pope.
the behavior was “not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or the saints” but more a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment.
Offending your religious sentiment? What about your religion offending and completely disregarding gay sentiment? What about verses in your bible calling for the death of homosexuals? What about unequal rights for women all over the world? What about its advocation of slavery, stoning, genocide and technological deceleration? No, you don't deserve a "don't pick on me" card. As long as you get your morals from a book that leads to and advocates beliefs that keep society from evolving and making itself better you will be mocked...and I will laugh.
P.S. Tim Minchin doesn't like the Pope.
Friday, May 27, 2011
Bastrop High Gets A Letter In The Mail
www.bastropenterprise.com/archive/x2085346315/file
So yeah, I was waiting for this letter to be sent. I really feel for the kid who got this ball rolling, and I hope he sues the pants off the school district for being a bunch of ignorant jebus-twats thinking they are the only people in the world.
Oh, here is a Christian explaining why everyone should be against ritual prayer in schools.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46828
"I would say in love to my Christian brothers and sisters, before you yearn for the imposition of prayer and similar rituals in your public schools, you might consider attending a football game at Wahiawa High School. Because unless you're ready to endure the unwilling exposure of yourself and your children to those beliefs and practices that your own faith forswears, you have no right to insist that others sit in silence and complicity while you do the same to them."
So yeah, I was waiting for this letter to be sent. I really feel for the kid who got this ball rolling, and I hope he sues the pants off the school district for being a bunch of ignorant jebus-twats thinking they are the only people in the world.
Oh, here is a Christian explaining why everyone should be against ritual prayer in schools.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46828
"I would say in love to my Christian brothers and sisters, before you yearn for the imposition of prayer and similar rituals in your public schools, you might consider attending a football game at Wahiawa High School. Because unless you're ready to endure the unwilling exposure of yourself and your children to those beliefs and practices that your own faith forswears, you have no right to insist that others sit in silence and complicity while you do the same to them."
Wednesday, May 25, 2011
Faith is not a virtue and Harold Camping used it to be a douche'
First off, it's important to point out what the hell faith is. It's a word that's been twisted and shat upon by various groups of people to help get convoluted points across. "But when I talk about my faith I mean my religion" Well then you're just replacing the word religion with another word. I could say "My faith is Muslim" or "My cantology(art of singing) is Muslim" and it's equally as silly. Just because a religion encompasses various forms of cantology and faith, it doesn't mean you should be word shuffling to make your voodoo sound accurate.
Well then what is faith? Simply put, it is believing something without evidence. But it's even more philosophically honest to say that faith is a belief held on bad evidence or no evidence at all, bad evidence being an important distinction later on. Also important to note is the fact that beliefs and faith are not mutually exclusive. Anyone is free to believe anything their mind can come up with. It's what you base that belief on that dictates whether or not other people on Facebook are going to mock you with impunity. Basing your beliefs on solid grounds is good and basing your beliefs on bad or no evidence is bad. Making important decisions based on hunches and faith is an irresponsible way to live your life.
Which leads me to the main point.
Harold Camping (Lets call him H.C.) and his campaign of bullshit slinging needs very little introduction. But what does need explaining is how hundreds of thousands of people could be conned into believing something so fucking stupid, not to mention the fact that the manner in which he "derived" the date itself is so very asinine.
Well then what is faith? Simply put, it is believing something without evidence. But it's even more philosophically honest to say that faith is a belief held on bad evidence or no evidence at all, bad evidence being an important distinction later on. Also important to note is the fact that beliefs and faith are not mutually exclusive. Anyone is free to believe anything their mind can come up with. It's what you base that belief on that dictates whether or not other people on Facebook are going to mock you with impunity. Basing your beliefs on solid grounds is good and basing your beliefs on bad or no evidence is bad. Making important decisions based on hunches and faith is an irresponsible way to live your life.
Which leads me to the main point.
Harold Camping (Lets call him H.C.) and his campaign of bullshit slinging needs very little introduction. But what does need explaining is how hundreds of thousands of people could be conned into believing something so fucking stupid, not to mention the fact that the manner in which he "derived" the date itself is so very asinine.
In addition, the very book he used his woo-woo math on tells him he is wrong and any serious claim to know is considered "testing Yahweh". What H.C. did, was make a claim and asserted a belief, based on BAD evidence on some points and NO evidence on others. The equation he pulled out of his ass was bad evidence and the claim of it being on the anniversary of the great flood was a claim with NO evidence at all. (Genesis is such complete bullshit that I consider it non-evidence). With so many things working against H.C. on his claim, he is reduced to telling his mindless followers "Have Faith".
Well, that turned out well.
Well, that turned out well.
With people giving their entire life savings, kids' college funds, vehicles, homes and any other number of monetarily valuable things under the guise of: WTF do we need money for? Jebus is coming back. Or old scripture like Malachi 3:10 and crap in the new testament praising being poor.
No matter how much you try to fluff up shitty old sayings like "Blessed be the meek" or "The poor man is rich in spirit", it does not make them true! Monetary based happiness claims are WAY more complicated than trying to sum them up in a single sentence or "the old saying" (topic for another day).
H.C. played these people like a bunch of flutes. Are they complete idiots for believing him? Not necessarily, but I will still make fun of them. Also, what happened to these people to allow them to be so duped? Well, I can answer that. The same reason and logic they use every day, when driving their car, making a big purchase, offering non-religious advice to a friend and trashing other gods they don't worship, was not used when presented with outlandish rapture claims. Yeah, I think we can call them idiots. I think we can call H.C. a fucking douche' bag. Above all, I think faith isn't something to be used...Ever.
No matter how much you try to fluff up shitty old sayings like "Blessed be the meek" or "The poor man is rich in spirit", it does not make them true! Monetary based happiness claims are WAY more complicated than trying to sum them up in a single sentence or "the old saying" (topic for another day).
H.C. played these people like a bunch of flutes. Are they complete idiots for believing him? Not necessarily, but I will still make fun of them. Also, what happened to these people to allow them to be so duped? Well, I can answer that. The same reason and logic they use every day, when driving their car, making a big purchase, offering non-religious advice to a friend and trashing other gods they don't worship, was not used when presented with outlandish rapture claims. Yeah, I think we can call them idiots. I think we can call H.C. a fucking douche' bag. Above all, I think faith isn't something to be used...Ever.
I apologize for being an ignorant twat all those years ago.
This is via a recent facebook note I put up. Content pending, I'll be equally sharing all posts here with my facebook notes.
A common occurrence I've seen among "enlightened" people, including some of my favorite philosophers, is a public apology for any transgressions that may have occurred at a time in their life when they "had all the answers". This is my "oh shit, sorry" letter.
I apologize:
To gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people: When I was younger I preached your hearts were filled with gross perversions and it was through your own free will and sin that you were gay. I participated in "Cure the Gays" prayer circles. I stood by as ridicule and hate were spewed from people I chose to look up to or call my friends, even if I felt it was wrong. I was told it was God's will, which is much more important than ours. I shamefully passed down these horrible points of view to younger generations of youth and I sincerely hope that they see reason now after my unsubstantiated bigotry. I apologize for signing multiple petitions to prohibit gay marriage and suppress gay rights. I deeply apologize for saying these things with no rational justification what-so-ever.
To Non-Christians and atheists:
I ridiculed or tried to convert on mission trips. I was once pig-headed enough to think that my reasons for believing in something were better than anyone else's... they aren't. I was confused and it never truly occurred to me why I disapproved of other peoples gods. If I had ever stopped to think about it, I would have realized why they don't believe in mine*. I'm sorry I said that you are going to hell to be tortured forever. That was bullshit. (put simply) I now find it morally reprehensible to assert that someone disserves anything of the sort for simply holding different beliefs under the same evidence as I hold mine and I refuse to put any stock in a God who would do something even close to that.
To the Wiccan girl who was made fun of by my friends and me for an entire school semester while adults did nothing to shut us up: We inflicted upon her a mental torture that some kids experience, but not for that length of time without any outside help. I very deeply regret the stupid and ignorant things that were said. I realize this technically fits into the apology above, but I'm convinced it deserves its own space due to its content.
For not investing more time and money into worthwhile charity work: I've spent most of my life tending to the comforts of my own mental and physical state. Since my college days, after all my comforts have been taken care of on a weekly basis, there has been plenty of either money or time to spare. I give myself no real excuses and will strive to give more of my excesses to those who cannot provide themselves simple comforts.
For allowing and accepting sexual repression in various forms including women's rights: I'm sorry for signing a petition to stop funding for Planned Parenthood. I'm sorry for aiding the struggle to encourage young men to feel ashamed for masturbating. Making someone feel sick inside for doing something so natural (even more awesome when done with a partner) I am ashamed of.
I'm truly sorry. I once thought it was a good thing for the world to push my own beliefs, I now view as dangerous, unto others. I wasn't making the world a better place, I was making it a bitter hate-full place and being a bigoted douche' bag while I was at it. It is now my prerogative to ensure that "my" absolute certainties of belief and faith are replaced with reason, logic, facts and sound moral thought.
From Craig to Dawkins, from Buddha to Nietzsche, from The Bible to The Koran, they all point out some of the very same simple facts: I am born, I live (for a short while), then I die and what I do during life is extremely important. For me it is deciding that my importance in this life is to chase knowledge in all its forms while helping all others in their chase of life and liberty.
From the pinnacle of my intelligence (from the bottom of my heart is to imply
I think with my feelings, which I no longer do) I apologize.
Sincerely,
JoeNavy
A common occurrence I've seen among "enlightened" people, including some of my favorite philosophers, is a public apology for any transgressions that may have occurred at a time in their life when they "had all the answers". This is my "oh shit, sorry" letter.
I apologize:
To gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people: When I was younger I preached your hearts were filled with gross perversions and it was through your own free will and sin that you were gay. I participated in "Cure the Gays" prayer circles. I stood by as ridicule and hate were spewed from people I chose to look up to or call my friends, even if I felt it was wrong. I was told it was God's will, which is much more important than ours. I shamefully passed down these horrible points of view to younger generations of youth and I sincerely hope that they see reason now after my unsubstantiated bigotry. I apologize for signing multiple petitions to prohibit gay marriage and suppress gay rights. I deeply apologize for saying these things with no rational justification what-so-ever.
To Non-Christians and atheists:
I ridiculed or tried to convert on mission trips. I was once pig-headed enough to think that my reasons for believing in something were better than anyone else's... they aren't. I was confused and it never truly occurred to me why I disapproved of other peoples gods. If I had ever stopped to think about it, I would have realized why they don't believe in mine*. I'm sorry I said that you are going to hell to be tortured forever. That was bullshit. (put simply) I now find it morally reprehensible to assert that someone disserves anything of the sort for simply holding different beliefs under the same evidence as I hold mine and I refuse to put any stock in a God who would do something even close to that.
To the Wiccan girl who was made fun of by my friends and me for an entire school semester while adults did nothing to shut us up: We inflicted upon her a mental torture that some kids experience, but not for that length of time without any outside help. I very deeply regret the stupid and ignorant things that were said. I realize this technically fits into the apology above, but I'm convinced it deserves its own space due to its content.
For not investing more time and money into worthwhile charity work: I've spent most of my life tending to the comforts of my own mental and physical state. Since my college days, after all my comforts have been taken care of on a weekly basis, there has been plenty of either money or time to spare. I give myself no real excuses and will strive to give more of my excesses to those who cannot provide themselves simple comforts.
For allowing and accepting sexual repression in various forms including women's rights: I'm sorry for signing a petition to stop funding for Planned Parenthood. I'm sorry for aiding the struggle to encourage young men to feel ashamed for masturbating. Making someone feel sick inside for doing something so natural (even more awesome when done with a partner) I am ashamed of.
I'm truly sorry. I once thought it was a good thing for the world to push my own beliefs, I now view as dangerous, unto others. I wasn't making the world a better place, I was making it a bitter hate-full place and being a bigoted douche' bag while I was at it. It is now my prerogative to ensure that "my" absolute certainties of belief and faith are replaced with reason, logic, facts and sound moral thought.
From Craig to Dawkins, from Buddha to Nietzsche, from The Bible to The Koran, they all point out some of the very same simple facts: I am born, I live (for a short while), then I die and what I do during life is extremely important. For me it is deciding that my importance in this life is to chase knowledge in all its forms while helping all others in their chase of life and liberty.
From the pinnacle of my intelligence (from the bottom of my heart is to imply
I think with my feelings, which I no longer do) I apologize.
Sincerely,
JoeNavy
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